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	<title>Comments on: Giclee Fraud Circles the Globe &#8211; What Can Be Done?</title>
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	<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/</link>
	<description>Online resources for fine-art printmaking workshops</description>
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		<title>By: Julia Matcham</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18518</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julia Matcham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NB I also use Somerset Enhanced 100% cotton paper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NB I also use Somerset Enhanced 100% cotton paper.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Julia Matcham</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julia Matcham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[sounds like they are effectively mono-prints...

For the record I was a screen printer...meaning I used to print my own work as you do...the hard way! But I am too old for all that now and the equipment remains sadly unused in my studio, and the squeegees are as hard as nails ... and my ink-jet prints look like my screen prints but smaller and are designed and proofed just as carefully. More so than many so called &#039;original&#039; screen-prints, my ink-jet prints do not exist in any other form.
I can&#039;t see that hard manual labour is a necessary attribute in the production of a print...and if it is, one might remark that most well-known printmakers don&#039;t do the hard work themselves!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sounds like they are effectively mono-prints&#8230;</p>
<p>For the record I was a screen printer&#8230;meaning I used to print my own work as you do&#8230;the hard way! But I am too old for all that now and the equipment remains sadly unused in my studio, and the squeegees are as hard as nails &#8230; and my ink-jet prints look like my screen prints but smaller and are designed and proofed just as carefully. More so than many so called &#8216;original&#8217; screen-prints, my ink-jet prints do not exist in any other form.<br />
I can&#8217;t see that hard manual labour is a necessary attribute in the production of a print&#8230;and if it is, one might remark that most well-known printmakers don&#8217;t do the hard work themselves!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Booth</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18515</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Booth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Everybody knows I&#039;m a stickler for &quot;authenticity.&quot; But anything Andy  MacDougall does, and anything he wants to call it, is OK by me. 

Have you considered call them &quot;everlasting syllabubs?&quot; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everybody knows I&#8217;m a stickler for &#8220;authenticity.&#8221; But anything Andy  MacDougall does, and anything he wants to call it, is OK by me. </p>
<p>Have you considered call them &#8220;everlasting syllabubs?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Booth</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18514</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Booth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it&#039;s complicated. But look on the bright side. It gives you a  subject for conversation when people are considering buying your prints. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it&#8217;s complicated. But look on the bright side. It gives you a  subject for conversation when people are considering buying your prints.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy macdougall</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18512</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy macdougall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 16:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last night, my buddy Neil and I spent hours and a few beers pulling approximately 85 screenprints on the old Jaguar one arm. These were the backgrounds of a new print we are working on. We used a technique called split fountain, where we dump in various inks of different colors and let them mix a bit randomly, but also drip them or push them with ink knives to make wild streaks and patterns, the idea being to create a westcoast looking sunset sky, shafts of light falling in the forest, with each one having a different look or feature. And instead of going for a more or less consistent look, we tried to make everywone different, lots of experimental combos and some surprising and beautiful results.

The other 8 colours will be consistent print to print in the edition. 

Although this is all done using screenprinting, after reading Tony&#039;s and Cavin&#039;s arguments on how there should be no distinctions between anything in the art world because we can use pretzel logic and definitions and personal opinions to make anything be anything, all to the greater good of selling art to innocents, I&#039;ve decided these are no longer screenprints.

We are using waterbased acrylic inks. We are using nice thick Somerset Satin rag paper. So, seeing there is not much difference between the materials used in this and the materials used by watercolor painters, and because each background is different and original, and watercolor paintings sell for way more than our shitty screenprints, and the art buying public doesn&#039;t care or doesn&#039;t know any better, and we ran out of money to buy more beer....

I&#039;ve decided we are going to call them watercolours. 

Is that OK with everybody? We won&#039;t say &#039;paintings&#039; although we were painting with the squeegee.

We should make piles more money this way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last night, my buddy Neil and I spent hours and a few beers pulling approximately 85 screenprints on the old Jaguar one arm. These were the backgrounds of a new print we are working on. We used a technique called split fountain, where we dump in various inks of different colors and let them mix a bit randomly, but also drip them or push them with ink knives to make wild streaks and patterns, the idea being to create a westcoast looking sunset sky, shafts of light falling in the forest, with each one having a different look or feature. And instead of going for a more or less consistent look, we tried to make everywone different, lots of experimental combos and some surprising and beautiful results.</p>
<p>The other 8 colours will be consistent print to print in the edition. </p>
<p>Although this is all done using screenprinting, after reading Tony&#8217;s and Cavin&#8217;s arguments on how there should be no distinctions between anything in the art world because we can use pretzel logic and definitions and personal opinions to make anything be anything, all to the greater good of selling art to innocents, I&#8217;ve decided these are no longer screenprints.</p>
<p>We are using waterbased acrylic inks. We are using nice thick Somerset Satin rag paper. So, seeing there is not much difference between the materials used in this and the materials used by watercolor painters, and because each background is different and original, and watercolor paintings sell for way more than our shitty screenprints, and the art buying public doesn&#8217;t care or doesn&#8217;t know any better, and we ran out of money to buy more beer&#8230;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve decided we are going to call them watercolours. </p>
<p>Is that OK with everybody? We won&#8217;t say &#8216;paintings&#8217; although we were painting with the squeegee.</p>
<p>We should make piles more money this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia Matcham</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julia Matcham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Mike...I am too confused by the dates of contributions to be able to work out what is new and old...but I don&#039;t think I have left anything unsaid from my point of view. There is no simple solution...even if you say that an original print is defined by the fact that it&#039;doesn&#039;t exist in another form&#039; it would lend doubt to many prints that are absolutely considered original by most people...eg Peter Blake uses collages  (and only supervises the printing)...lithographs can be transfered from drawing to plate (and by a technician)...complex crayon or pastel drawings are sometimes colour separated mechanically and then sold as original screen prints ...David Hockney has produced ink-jet prints which could be run off infinitely; does that invalidate them?
  I have been looking through various publishers sites...and they are very unclear about exactly how their products are printed.  I fear my original ink-jet prints will be called giclees whether I protest or not...because as long as work sells and has numbers and signatures no-one except the artist gives and the odd punter  damn.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike&#8230;I am too confused by the dates of contributions to be able to work out what is new and old&#8230;but I don&#8217;t think I have left anything unsaid from my point of view. There is no simple solution&#8230;even if you say that an original print is defined by the fact that it&#8217;doesn&#8217;t exist in another form&#8217; it would lend doubt to many prints that are absolutely considered original by most people&#8230;eg Peter Blake uses collages  (and only supervises the printing)&#8230;lithographs can be transfered from drawing to plate (and by a technician)&#8230;complex crayon or pastel drawings are sometimes colour separated mechanically and then sold as original screen prints &#8230;David Hockney has produced ink-jet prints which could be run off infinitely; does that invalidate them?<br />
  I have been looking through various publishers sites&#8230;and they are very unclear about exactly how their products are printed.  I fear my original ink-jet prints will be called giclees whether I protest or not&#8230;because as long as work sells and has numbers and signatures no-one except the artist gives and the odd punter  damn.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Booth</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18498</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Booth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the factor which distinguishes digital-fine-art prints from giclee copies is the intention of the artist. Did he or she set out to create a fine-art print? If they did it&#039;s a print. Did they simply photograph an image created in another medium (oils, water colors, etc.) and output it on an inkjet printer (no matter how high-tech the printer)? Then it&#039;s a digital reproduction, a &quot;giclee reproduction,&quot; not a &quot;giclee print.&quot;

Obviously, anyone with a substantial economic interest in calling photographic reproductions &quot;fine art prints&quot; will argue the point till the cows come home, but that doesn&#039;t alter the reality. And I&#039;m not only referring here to painters who want to sell copies of their paintings, but the big-bucks large-format printer and ink interests.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the factor which distinguishes digital-fine-art prints from giclee copies is the intention of the artist. Did he or she set out to create a fine-art print? If they did it&#8217;s a print. Did they simply photograph an image created in another medium (oils, water colors, etc.) and output it on an inkjet printer (no matter how high-tech the printer)? Then it&#8217;s a digital reproduction, a &#8220;giclee reproduction,&#8221; not a &#8220;giclee print.&#8221;</p>
<p>Obviously, anyone with a substantial economic interest in calling photographic reproductions &#8220;fine art prints&#8221; will argue the point till the cows come home, but that doesn&#8217;t alter the reality. And I&#8217;m not only referring here to painters who want to sell copies of their paintings, but the big-bucks large-format printer and ink interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Cavin</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cavin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 00:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But Julia thats what giclee has come to mean for us; Digital Ink Jet Prints. 

The original intent for the word giclee was for the word giclee to mean fine art prints created on Iris printers. But the meaning of the name giclee changed into meaning an artist&#039;s care for the process of using a computer and scanner and a printer and paper to produce art.

Its just that giclee&#039;s can be intended to be reproductions and also as originals.

And i am guessing probably as in other printmaking methods there are poor giclee printers and excellent giclee printers.

Buyers have to learn to differentiate between poor giclee printers and excellent ones.

Just like good lithographers and bad lithographers, theree are good giclee printers and bad giclee printers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Julia thats what giclee has come to mean for us; Digital Ink Jet Prints. </p>
<p>The original intent for the word giclee was for the word giclee to mean fine art prints created on Iris printers. But the meaning of the name giclee changed into meaning an artist&#8217;s care for the process of using a computer and scanner and a printer and paper to produce art.</p>
<p>Its just that giclee&#8217;s can be intended to be reproductions and also as originals.</p>
<p>And i am guessing probably as in other printmaking methods there are poor giclee printers and excellent giclee printers.</p>
<p>Buyers have to learn to differentiate between poor giclee printers and excellent ones.</p>
<p>Just like good lithographers and bad lithographers, theree are good giclee printers and bad giclee printers.</p>
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		<title>By: Cavin</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cavin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 00:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[GPA – Gliclée Printers Association Standards no. 1:
“1. The ability to exactly reproduce original artwork”

WOW not if the artwork wasn&#039;t intended to be the realized print the artist have in mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GPA – Gliclée Printers Association Standards no. 1:<br />
“1. The ability to exactly reproduce original artwork”</p>
<p>WOW not if the artwork wasn&#8217;t intended to be the realized print the artist have in mind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cavin</title>
		<link>http://printworkshopcentral.com/2008/11/27/giclee-fraud-circles-the-globe-what-can-be-done/#comment-18249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cavin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 00:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://printworkshopcentral.wordpress.com/?p=621#comment-18249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“The distinction as to whether a digital print is an “original print” is determined by wheter the work was created by the artist to be realized as a print. A digital print of a work that originated as a painting or drawing is a reproduction and therefore is not an original print”
(ifpda – International Fine Print Dealers Association)



WOW i am excited that IFDPA could get this wrong. If the distinction as to whether a digital print is an “original print” is determined by whether the work was created by the artist to be realized as a print, then the artist may use the painting or drawing to realize the digital print as the original print. The painting or drawing wasn&#039;t to be realized as the print to begin with.

If the painting or drawing was intended as the original print then of course a digital print of that work is a reproduction.

Its all intention guys! And IFPDA got it right at the top half but got it wrong on the bottom half when it claims method determines originality, when it clearly contradicts  itself  when it also says its determined by the intention of the artist.

How can digital print origination from a painting or drawing be not original when that was its intended form to begin with?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The distinction as to whether a digital print is an “original print” is determined by wheter the work was created by the artist to be realized as a print. A digital print of a work that originated as a painting or drawing is a reproduction and therefore is not an original print”<br />
(ifpda – International Fine Print Dealers Association)</p>
<p>WOW i am excited that IFDPA could get this wrong. If the distinction as to whether a digital print is an “original print” is determined by whether the work was created by the artist to be realized as a print, then the artist may use the painting or drawing to realize the digital print as the original print. The painting or drawing wasn&#8217;t to be realized as the print to begin with.</p>
<p>If the painting or drawing was intended as the original print then of course a digital print of that work is a reproduction.</p>
<p>Its all intention guys! And IFPDA got it right at the top half but got it wrong on the bottom half when it claims method determines originality, when it clearly contradicts  itself  when it also says its determined by the intention of the artist.</p>
<p>How can digital print origination from a painting or drawing be not original when that was its intended form to begin with?</p>
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